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The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

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The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

Post by Guest on January 24th 2016, 10:37 pm

I'm not an official reporter of minor leagues. Just here to brag about my teams.

Springfield Indians: AA champs

Toledo Mud Hens: A champs

Arrow   cheers   jocolor  Sleep   elephant   geek  Sleep   Sleep   Sleep

Both teams had never been to the playoffs.
Both teams had never won any championships.

Anyway...
pathetic (according to general consensus of most OOTP online leagues) but, well, there it is.

Seems a shame that nobody gives a crap about minor league teams in the OOTP population throughout. I actually busted my ass to get those championships: managing the teams & paying close attention to lineups etc. study  Not much in the way of competition though.

...except in the playoffs.
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Re: The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

Post by WhoDat on January 25th 2016, 2:11 am

I watch my minors really closely though not so much for championships as trying to best develop talent.  I try to get players new positions and try to figure out what they do well and not so well.  Near the end of the season, if the team is in the hunt, I may try to manage the teams to try to win.
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Re: The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

Post by bigrevkev55 on January 25th 2016, 8:01 am

WhoDat wrote:I watch my minors really closely though not so much for championships as trying to best develop talent.  I try to get players new positions and try to figure out what they do well and not so well.  Near the end of the season, if the team is in the hunt, I may try to manage the teams to try to win.
Ditto except I only try to manage them for a championship if my MLB team isn't in the hunt.

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Re: The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

Post by Guest on January 25th 2016, 9:49 pm

WhoDat wrote:I watch my minors really closely though not so much for championships as trying to best develop talent.  I try to get players new positions and try to figure out what they do well and not so well.  Near the end of the season, if the team is in the hunt, I may try to manage the teams to try to win.
Makes sense. That's what most people do.

I like to think playing on a winning team helps develop young players: moral boost + good coaching = better development. However, I have no evidence of that actually having an affect on players.
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Re: The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

Post by Rich on January 26th 2016, 10:59 am

ClevelandMirageGM wrote:I'm not an official reporter of minor leagues. Just here to brag about my teams.

Springfield Indians: AA champs

Toledo Mud Hens: A champs

Arrow   cheers   jocolor  Sleep   elephant   geek  Sleep   Sleep   Sleep

Both teams had never been to the playoffs.
Both teams had never won any championships.

Anyway...
pathetic (according to general consensus of most OOTP online leagues) but, well, there it is.

Seems a shame that nobody gives a crap about minor league teams in the OOTP population throughout. I actually busted my ass to get those championships: managing the teams & paying close attention to lineups etc. study  Not much in the way of competition though.

...except in the playoffs.
I watch my minors- try to keep the lineups full and promote players in a timely matter.  Sign minor league free agents here and there to fill holes.  The overall record doesn't matter too much since I'm always moving players up and down- but I do like when they have a good season.  My triple A is usually good but lowe minors - not so much.  Usually a result of drafting low and promoting the talent quickly.  I play the best talent and not to win so much like on the ML level.


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Re: The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

Post by Guest on January 26th 2016, 6:46 pm

Rich wrote:

I watch my minors- try to keep the lineups full and promote players in a timely matter.  Sign minor league free agents here and there to fill holes.  The overall record doesn't matter too much since I'm always moving players up and down- but I do like when they have a good season.  My triple A is usually good but lowe minors - not so much.  Usually a result of drafting low and promoting the talent quickly.  I play the best talent and not to win so much like on the ML level.
Again this is typical of most OOTP gamers.

The question remains, is it reflective of real life. Probably not. That is, only from the GM/owners' POV. Fans of home town Minor League teams are often proud of them & personnel of those squads are also dedicated. The players may be another story. If you look up Minor League teams on the web, you can read about so & so famous ballplayer who passed through on their way to the big leagues.

Immersion, immersion. I'm always calling for more of it because that is what a Baseball Simulation is supposed to be. OOTP never claimed to be that. By it's very name, it is saying how it is limited in scope. Yet it doesn't mind claiming that it's a Baseball Simulation & the best of its kind.

So we wait for the day when someone produces a more comprehensive Baseball Simulation cpu game.. . . . . maybe not in this lifetime.

study
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Re: The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

Post by WhoDat on January 26th 2016, 8:37 pm

I think playing on a winning team for those players that care would help their development.  In theory keeping players happy will help them improve.  So even though I don't play to win in the minors doesn't mean I totally ignore record.  I just don't push for the title.  If I want the championship I might delay promoting a deserving player and in general I don't do that, at least not while there is significant time left in the season.  So keeping players happy is part of the puzzle but not the most important part.

IRL I score games at the Trenton Thunder (NYA AA) and you may be surprised that the vast majority of fans aren't really invested in the team's success.  The Thunder have been a successful franchise and have set minor league attendance records in the past but attendance at playoff games is surprisingly low.  I think there is a lack of investment by fans.  Players come and go, especially the good ones, so it is hard to really get attached.  The more popular players tend to be the guys that aren't good enough to get promoted, the career minor leaguers. The top prospects don't tend to hang around.  This past season the Thunder started out with a killer lineup (4 or 5 top 20 Yankee prospects) but they were mostly gone in the fIrst 2 months. I sit with some longterm season ticket holders and they are pretty invested in the team but outside of those it is an opportunity for relatively cheap family entertainment and a place for 20 & 30 somethings  to get drunk.

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Re: The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

Post by Guest on January 27th 2016, 5:56 pm

WhoDat wrote:I think playing on a winning team for those players that care would help their development.  In theory keeping players happy will help them improve.  So even though I don't play to win in the minors doesn't mean I totally ignore record.  I just don't push for the title.  If I want the championship I might delay promoting a deserving player and in general I don't do that, at least not while there is significant time left in the season.  So keeping players happy is part of the puzzle but not the most important part.

IRL I score games at the Trenton Thunder (NYA AA) and you may be surprised that the vast majority of fans aren't really invested in the team's success.  The Thunder have been a successful franchise and have set minor league attendance records in the past but attendance at playoff games is surprisingly low.  I think there is a lack of investment by fans.  Players come and go, especially the good ones, so it is hard to really get attached.  The more popular players tend to be the guys that aren't good enough to get promoted, the career minor leaguers. The top prospects don't tend to hang around.  This past season the Thunder started out with a killer lineup (4 or 5 top 20 Yankee prospects) but they were mostly gone in the fIrst 2 months. I sit with some longterm season ticket holders and they are pretty invested in the team but outside of those it is an opportunity for relatively cheap family entertainment and a place for 20 & 30 somethings  to get drunk.

There are a number of different issues here. I don't have experience like you do with a minor league ballclub as I'm from a big city (LA) and there are two major league teams to choose from although I could drive out to the Inland Empire (a hellish prospect in So Cal traffic) to root for California League (A ball) teams like the Rancho Cucamonga Quakes, Lake Elsinore Storm, Inland Empire 66ers (San Bernadino), Lancaster JetHawks & High Desert Mavericks up at Mojave. Then there's college ball with UCLA & USC, the half dozen state colleges, over a dozen Community College teams, more than that of high school teams & the dozens of Little League teams including some good mostly Mexican teams like the one that's at Babe Ruth level who played just across the street in the park next to my old apartment here in the San Fernando Valley. There's also the Golden Baseball League of ex-major league players which has 2 teams in So Cal, Fullerton Flyers & Long Beach Armada. Clearly we are spoiled with too much to choose from. i basically just go see Dodgers games if I'm in the mood, unless something happens to be nearby.

But from the looks of internet sites it appears there is quite a bit of interest from locals who have minor league teams in their home towns around California. Bakersfield Blaze, Fresno Grizzlies & San Jose Giants come to mind. Of course you are right about how a lot of people come to games to enjoy the sunshine, get soused or simply for some entertainment. Why does that matter? The pep squads take care of rooting behavior. Attendance numbers spell whether a town cares about its team or not. From what I understand, for example, the Stockton Ports (California League, A) are almost always sold out.

Maybe there's something wrong with New Jersey people in general, at least in terms of attitude toward the game of baseball. Although the internet defies this if you look at the state's minor league teams & the apparent interest in them & this rings true throughout the eastern seaboard, at least as the web describes these minor league teams. Especially in the south.

The game has waned in popularity nationwide. Or maybe a better way to say that (since the numbers of teams/fans are greater than ever) is that many Americans' attitude toward baseball has certainly changed in the past 2 decades. This is especially true with regard to fashion minded young people. Baseball is no longer fashionable & often considered to be cornball & associated with Republicans politically.

P.S. Is promoting a player necessarily good for their development? Maybe I worry too much about promoting players too quickly. Although that is one of the guidelines. I basically keep players (prospects) at a level where they are playing well (BA & ERA). This method, in turn, helps the team they're playing on win games.

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Re: The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

Post by Guest on January 27th 2016, 7:03 pm

WhoDat wrote:  ...

...I think there is a lack of investment by fans.  Players come and go, especially the good ones, so it is hard to really get attached.  The more popular players tend to be the guys that aren't good enough to get promoted, the career minor leaguers. The top prospects don't tend to hang around.  This past season the Thunder started out with a killer lineup (4 or 5 top 20 Yankee prospects) but they were mostly gone in the fIrst 2 months. 

If it's equally the case throughout the league, which it must be, then the loss of the (supposedly) best players shouldn't kill a team's chances to prosper. 

Career minor leaguers, if they are the most popular as you say, should be enough inspiration for local fans to enjoy games with their home town team. It just seems that this attitude (of loss) is not really a baseball fan attitude. It's an attitude of people who are either franchise motivated and/or newspaper (re: pro ball) minded.  

My guess is that a vast majority of people who go to (or could potentially go to) local minor league games are not pro/franchise minded. Simple baseball lovers is what every team needs, regardless what league they play in. I don't believe that is missing from the general population. But there is a jaded attitude that has formed around baseball and, frankly, OOTP contributes to that jaded, business minded, I-only-watch-sports-to-be-hip-enough-to-know-the-inside-story-on-pro-contracts etc attitude. It's an attitude that goes against the joy of simply watching a great game of baseball. Basically, it sucks. Further, when young people witness the attitude around, they also cop a negative attitude. All of it snowballs into negativity and specialized, critical attitude that ultimately works against the natural joy which the game originally inspired in its lovers.
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Re: The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

Post by WhoDat on January 27th 2016, 7:25 pm

Promoting players at the proper time does IMO aid in a players' development.  I want my players to be doing well at a level.  If they are really struggling then maybe they should be down a level.  If a player is dominating at a level then it is probably better to move him up to challenge him.  Of course we don't know how exactly the game is coded so it really is trial and error. It is near impossible to know exactly why a player starts to do well/poorly.  Is it the competition level, is it his 'happiness', is it just luck?  I guess I apply what I think would work with real players and what I perceive to work in-game.  Right or wrong? Who knows though I seems to be doing something right since I have a pretty good overall record in the online leagues I am in.

You do have quite a few more options in California compared to New Jersey for baseball.  Your weather makes for a better baseball environment if nothing else.  I wouldn't say Cali baseball fans are necessarily that different than NJ baseball fans, it is just a different environment.  I don't think I would use what is on the internet and a team's website to judge the interest level.  Generally speaking I would expect the 'true fans' to access and post on the team's site where the casual fan who goes to games as a thing to do probably wouldn't post as much.

In speaking with professionals (scouts and such) at Thunder games it seems Trenton is pretty representative of interest in minor league ball.  There are core groups of fans that are really into the team, they tend to be vocal and regular attendees.  They are there come good an bad and also attend playoffs and even follow there teams to other parks.  But the majority of fans at any given game are casual fans.  They don't come out in bad weather and they aren't dissuaded from coming out if the home team is not playing well.  They come out as an affordable entertainment option for the family.  These casual fans couldn't name many players on the team and couldn't tell you the team's record. This is neither good nor bad, very few teams are going to fill a stadium with die hard fans, they need those casual fans to make ends meet.  Winning a championship definitely doesn't hurt and it does help attendance some the following year but I don't think it has the same affect that it does at the major league level.  Major League games cost so much to go I think winning is more of a demand from fans at that level.  Minor league ball is such a good value for the money that people will come whether win or loose as long as the organization makes it fun and affordable.

I get into OOTP, maybe too much so Smile, so I pay a lot of attention to my minors.  An again, I don't mind at all winning in the minors but that isn't my priority.  One online league I am in just finished up for the season and I lost in the World Series 4 games to 2 and I also won the AAA title.  The AAA title is nice but I didn't avoid promoting players to the majors in September if I thought it would help the team/player even if it hurt the AAA team's chances.

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Re: The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

Post by Guest on January 28th 2016, 9:16 pm

I read the history of Pacific Coast League (PCL) had personnel choosing to play out here because the weather allowed for longer seasons & more training opps. But you also read about how some managers from the past believe the best ballplayers are gritty & tough, which is apparently an east US thing compared to la-la land out west. 

I'm playing the Dodgers 2015 season on OOTP16 & discovered making a couple of unorthodox trades which brought out east coast players with grittier personalities was just what the Dodgers lacked & they're doing better than they were IRL. IMO was what they needed to balance the team, personality-wise. If you watched the playoffs against the Mets or the seasons before against the Cards you could see how teams from east push the gritty card in comparison to LA's team personality. The rival Giants also do that. 

I brought in catcher Russell Martin who used to play for LA but went to the Yankees in 2011 & then the Pirates: some much needed HR power & solid backstop. I also traded for Rays' Evan Longoria (whose personality says "tough & gritty") which put some needed grit & batting power into the 3B spot. The overall feel of the team is better IMO.

Even when they were Brooklyn, the Dodgers were leaders in the racial integration bit. It continues with LA's politically liberal rep & Magic Johnson for manager. There's an old conservative American attitude where less racial toleration spells grittier (Ty Cobb) but the Dodgers were known for a base stealing prowess & chip wins: underdogs, as the name Dodgers implies & their earlier nickname was the Robins & I'm fairly certain they weren't talking about birds, with the striped jailbird-like uniform. But 21st century Dodgers aren't that anymore. Seems like they're slanted somewhat into the pretty boy team (Greinke) which fits LA (Hollywood) & similarly mild-mannered (Jansen etc).

From what I learned during the short time I lived in the area of NYC (about a year & a half at Staten Island) anywhere that's not Manhattan has some element of underdog connected to it, especially Jersey. I remember feeling that (hatred of Manhattan) when a band I played in did a few shows at Asbury Park. It makes you wonder what it's like when a Yankees franchise team plays in NJ. Not sure about Trenton but remember Passaic being a pretty gritty town.. as opposed to mild suburban Teaneck where some friends of ours lived. But this was back in early-80s & I hear a lot has changed since then.
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Re: The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

Post by Bumstead on February 25th 2016, 4:51 pm

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Re: The Big Whoop Tee Doo - aka Minor League Champs

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