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Owner Budget poll

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Poll

Now that all teams are even out- what should we do going forward?

[ 5 ]
45% [45%] 
[ 4 ]
36% [36%] 
[ 2 ]
18% [18%] 

Total Votes: 11
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Rich
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Posts : 5625
Join date : 2012-10-12
Location : Long Island NY

Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Rich on October 31st 2014, 2:57 pm

Bumstead wrote:
PelicansGM wrote:I guess that's the problem in a fictional league with small town teams. We artificially inflate their budget to match other teams, and the owners think it's too much for their small market, so they always try to drive it down. All things being equal, my opinion is that equal budgets for all is like giving out trophies for last place. But there seems to be lots of little underlying problems that can keep us from having the game just understand what the hell we're trying to accomplish without constant tweaking and monitoring.

I'm not asking for favors or handouts.  I hate Halloween, but I guess it's a good training day...I just don't like the fact that I have some cheap ass owner that I got by chance while every other team in the league has my wife as their owner, so y'all can just throw all the money you can find at the players, scouting and development.  That's my beef with the setup.  It's cute to have owner personalities, but when you are trying to compete with actual people in an on-line league it seems like there should be some base of fairness in the setup.  I would actually vote to use the financials instead of budgets.  Most people don't like that, but the reality is, you are running an organization that you are trying to keep viable and win.  But, I haven't left yet so...I know Rich, you've suggested it, but I'm like a bad apple.  I just keep hanging around at the top of the tree where you can't reach me...  cheers bounce

Honestly, the cities we use are fictional as well.  They aren't really New York or Tacoma or Charming or any other "real" city.  So, tying some perceived market size to one of these cities is a little short sighted as well.

Bum
yeah - market sizes are random and don't have anything to do with the cities picked/created.  New York can be a large market in one league and small in a number.

Jeff you should be good now- the owner shouldn't effect too much except how the money is spent in what bucket.  Either Free agents or extensions.  The different budget amounts don't bother me as much as the amount between the highest and lowest teams.


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Richard J. Rutkowski
North Shore Honu
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.556(900-720)
2027 NABL Champs!
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Bumstead
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Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Bumstead on October 31st 2014, 2:17 pm

PelicansGM wrote:I guess that's the problem in a fictional league with small town teams. We artificially inflate their budget to match other teams, and the owners think it's too much for their small market, so they always try to drive it down. All things being equal, my opinion is that equal budgets for all is like giving out trophies for last place. But there seems to be lots of little underlying problems that can keep us from having the game just understand what the hell we're trying to accomplish without constant tweaking and monitoring.

I'm not asking for favors or handouts.  I hate Halloween, but I guess it's a good training day...I just don't like the fact that I have some cheap ass owner that I got by chance while every other team in the league has my wife as their owner, so y'all can just throw all the money you can find at the players, scouting and development.  That's my beef with the setup.  It's cute to have owner personalities, but when you are trying to compete with actual people in an on-line league it seems like there should be some base of fairness in the setup.  I would actually vote to use the financials instead of budgets.  Most people don't like that, but the reality is, you are running an organization that you are trying to keep viable and win.  But, I haven't left yet so...I know Rich, you've suggested it, but I'm like a bad apple.  I just keep hanging around at the top of the tree where you can't reach me...  cheers bounce

Honestly, the cities we use are fictional as well.  They aren't really New York or Tacoma or Charming or any other "real" city.  So, tying some perceived market size to one of these cities is a little short sighted as well.

Bum

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Guest

Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Guest on October 31st 2014, 9:47 am

I guess that's the problem in a fictional league with small town teams. We artificially inflate their budget to match other teams, and the owners think it's too much for their small market, so they always try to drive it down. All things being equal, my opinion is that equal budgets for all is like giving out trophies for last place. But there seems to be lots of little underlying problems that can keep us from having the game just understand what the hell we're trying to accomplish without constant tweaking and monitoring.
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Rich
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Posts : 5625
Join date : 2012-10-12
Location : Long Island NY

Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Rich on October 30th 2014, 7:15 pm

Bumstead wrote:
Rich wrote:
Bumstead wrote:
Rich wrote:
Bumstead wrote:
Rich wrote:unless we get more voting on this we will let it ride.  Just about everything is equal now so the only thing we will change is owner spending when a new owner takes over.  We can open this up again if things get whacky in another 5-10 seasons....

I'm not talking about spending ratings.  All owner ratings should be the same.  There shouldn't be any variance.  There's really no point to it when you are competing in an on-line league, unless, of course, you have only owners that are never going to leave...I don't think we have that.

"Just about everything is equal..."  Why wouldn't everything be equal?  (regarding owners and budgets)  I don't understand the reluctance to just make all owner ratings identical.  Sure, it's fun in our dynasties to have different personalities as owners.  In on-line OOTP, it's just annoying.

The only teams that want the game to decide their budgets are the one's with owners that will keep hammering their budget up.  I will be happy to agree to letting the game decide our budgets when all owner ratings are exactly the same and there is no salary cap.  Otherwise, it's just going to cause more problems.

Bum
there are only 2 ratings.  Patience and spending.  Patience only mattes if you can get fired/we we can't in this league.  Spending is equal because its for the financials.
And thank God for that or I would have already been fired 4 times...I can only come up with so many alias.'  I was under the impression that there were more owner ratings than just those 2.  I have never looked.  Thank you.

I voted earlier to keep budgets the same.  With a salary cap, why would we allow budgets to be different?  I wish we could just get away from budgets altogether and go to finances and make teams manage the revenue that they generate.  If you let budgets move around, you have people complaining because they can't afford salaries, scouting and development.  If you keep budgets the same then people can spend beyond what they generate in revenue.  It's so convoluted...In our current environment, I think it is best to have equal budgets.  Other than the financial side of it, I don't see any reason to vary from that (with a salary cap).  Without a cap, with a consistent group of owners, with some responsibility for maintaining financial stability, then I can see letting the game generate the budgets.

yay bounce xtrahappy dunno

Bum
the game will change budgets each season.  We took out most of the variables but I think there is still just an arbitrary budget number the game throws out- also how much profit or loss you have effects it too.  Right now everyone has the same budget.  I never played with everyone having the same budgets so how different they will be next spring - we will have to see.  They could all be different again or the could gradually change.

My question is: Why would we want teams to have different budgets?

If I look at my finances every year, my owner wants to shrink my budget until you intervene and make it equal to the other teams.  He's never going to raise the budget.  Right now my owner is projecting my budget to drop from $128M to $120M next year...Why?  Is every team's owner projecting such a thing?
mine been going down too- I think the game likes large and small market teams and will keep adjusting to that.


_________________
Richard J. Rutkowski
North Shore Honu
2020-Present
.556(900-720)
2027 NABL Champs!
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Bumstead
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Posts : 518
Join date : 2012-10-12
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Location : Valparaiso, IN

Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Bumstead on October 30th 2014, 5:01 pm

Rich wrote:
Bumstead wrote:
Rich wrote:
Bumstead wrote:
Rich wrote:unless we get more voting on this we will let it ride.  Just about everything is equal now so the only thing we will change is owner spending when a new owner takes over.  We can open this up again if things get whacky in another 5-10 seasons....

I'm not talking about spending ratings.  All owner ratings should be the same.  There shouldn't be any variance.  There's really no point to it when you are competing in an on-line league, unless, of course, you have only owners that are never going to leave...I don't think we have that.

"Just about everything is equal..."  Why wouldn't everything be equal?  (regarding owners and budgets)  I don't understand the reluctance to just make all owner ratings identical.  Sure, it's fun in our dynasties to have different personalities as owners.  In on-line OOTP, it's just annoying.

The only teams that want the game to decide their budgets are the one's with owners that will keep hammering their budget up.  I will be happy to agree to letting the game decide our budgets when all owner ratings are exactly the same and there is no salary cap.  Otherwise, it's just going to cause more problems.

Bum
there are only 2 ratings.  Patience and spending.  Patience only mattes if you can get fired/we we can't in this league.  Spending is equal because its for the financials.
And thank God for that or I would have already been fired 4 times...I can only come up with so many alias.'  I was under the impression that there were more owner ratings than just those 2.  I have never looked.  Thank you.

I voted earlier to keep budgets the same.  With a salary cap, why would we allow budgets to be different?  I wish we could just get away from budgets altogether and go to finances and make teams manage the revenue that they generate.  If you let budgets move around, you have people complaining because they can't afford salaries, scouting and development.  If you keep budgets the same then people can spend beyond what they generate in revenue.  It's so convoluted...In our current environment, I think it is best to have equal budgets.  Other than the financial side of it, I don't see any reason to vary from that (with a salary cap).  Without a cap, with a consistent group of owners, with some responsibility for maintaining financial stability, then I can see letting the game generate the budgets.

yay bounce xtrahappy dunno

Bum
the game will change budgets each season.  We took out most of the variables but I think there is still just an arbitrary budget number the game throws out- also how much profit or loss you have effects it too.  Right now everyone has the same budget.  I never played with everyone having the same budgets so how different they will be next spring - we will have to see.  They could all be different again or the could gradually change.

My question is: Why would we want teams to have different budgets?

If I look at my finances every year, my owner wants to shrink my budget until you intervene and make it equal to the other teams.  He's never going to raise the budget.  Right now my owner is projecting my budget to drop from $128M to $120M next year...Why?  Is every team's owner projecting such a thing?
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Rich
Commish

Posts : 5625
Join date : 2012-10-12
Location : Long Island NY

Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Rich on October 30th 2014, 4:40 pm

Bumstead wrote:
Rich wrote:
Bumstead wrote:
Rich wrote:unless we get more voting on this we will let it ride.  Just about everything is equal now so the only thing we will change is owner spending when a new owner takes over.  We can open this up again if things get whacky in another 5-10 seasons....

I'm not talking about spending ratings.  All owner ratings should be the same.  There shouldn't be any variance.  There's really no point to it when you are competing in an on-line league, unless, of course, you have only owners that are never going to leave...I don't think we have that.

"Just about everything is equal..."  Why wouldn't everything be equal?  (regarding owners and budgets)  I don't understand the reluctance to just make all owner ratings identical.  Sure, it's fun in our dynasties to have different personalities as owners.  In on-line OOTP, it's just annoying.

The only teams that want the game to decide their budgets are the one's with owners that will keep hammering their budget up.  I will be happy to agree to letting the game decide our budgets when all owner ratings are exactly the same and there is no salary cap.  Otherwise, it's just going to cause more problems.

Bum
there are only 2 ratings.  Patience and spending.  Patience only mattes if you can get fired/we we can't in this league.  Spending is equal because its for the financials.
And thank God for that or I would have already been fired 4 times...I can only come up with so many alias.'  I was under the impression that there were more owner ratings than just those 2.  I have never looked.  Thank you.

I voted earlier to keep budgets the same.  With a salary cap, why would we allow budgets to be different?  I wish we could just get away from budgets altogether and go to finances and make teams manage the revenue that they generate.  If you let budgets move around, you have people complaining because they can't afford salaries, scouting and development.  If you keep budgets the same then people can spend beyond what they generate in revenue.  It's so convoluted...In our current environment, I think it is best to have equal budgets.  Other than the financial side of it, I don't see any reason to vary from that (with a salary cap).  Without a cap, with a consistent group of owners, with some responsibility for maintaining financial stability, then I can see letting the game generate the budgets.

yay bounce xtrahappy dunno

Bum
the game will change budgets each season.  We took out most of the variables but I think there is still just an arbitrary budget number the game throws out- also how much profit or loss you have effects it too.  Right now everyone has the same budget.  I never played with everyone having the same budgets so how different they will be next spring - we will have to see.  They could all be different again or the could gradually change.


_________________
Richard J. Rutkowski
North Shore Honu
2020-Present
.556(900-720)
2027 NABL Champs!
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Bumstead
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Join date : 2012-10-12
Age : 50
Location : Valparaiso, IN

Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Bumstead on October 30th 2014, 3:22 pm

Rich wrote:
Bumstead wrote:
Rich wrote:unless we get more voting on this we will let it ride.  Just about everything is equal now so the only thing we will change is owner spending when a new owner takes over.  We can open this up again if things get whacky in another 5-10 seasons....

I'm not talking about spending ratings.  All owner ratings should be the same.  There shouldn't be any variance.  There's really no point to it when you are competing in an on-line league, unless, of course, you have only owners that are never going to leave...I don't think we have that.

"Just about everything is equal..."  Why wouldn't everything be equal?  (regarding owners and budgets)  I don't understand the reluctance to just make all owner ratings identical.  Sure, it's fun in our dynasties to have different personalities as owners.  In on-line OOTP, it's just annoying.

The only teams that want the game to decide their budgets are the one's with owners that will keep hammering their budget up.  I will be happy to agree to letting the game decide our budgets when all owner ratings are exactly the same and there is no salary cap.  Otherwise, it's just going to cause more problems.

Bum
there are only 2 ratings.  Patience and spending.  Patience only mattes if you can get fired/we we can't in this league.  Spending is equal because its for the financials.
And thank God for that or I would have already been fired 4 times...I can only come up with so many alias.'  I was under the impression that there were more owner ratings than just those 2.  I have never looked.  Thank you.

I voted earlier to keep budgets the same.  With a salary cap, why would we allow budgets to be different?  I wish we could just get away from budgets altogether and go to finances and make teams manage the revenue that they generate.  If you let budgets move around, you have people complaining because they can't afford salaries, scouting and development.  If you keep budgets the same then people can spend beyond what they generate in revenue.  It's so convoluted...In our current environment, I think it is best to have equal budgets.  Other than the financial side of it, I don't see any reason to vary from that (with a salary cap).  Without a cap, with a consistent group of owners, with some responsibility for maintaining financial stability, then I can see letting the game generate the budgets.

yay bounce xtrahappy dunno

Bum
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Rich
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Posts : 5625
Join date : 2012-10-12
Location : Long Island NY

Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Rich on October 30th 2014, 2:49 pm

Bumstead wrote:
Rich wrote:unless we get more voting on this we will let it ride.  Just about everything is equal now so the only thing we will change is owner spending when a new owner takes over.  We can open this up again if things get whacky in another 5-10 seasons....

I'm not talking about spending ratings.  All owner ratings should be the same.  There shouldn't be any variance.  There's really no point to it when you are competing in an on-line league, unless, of course, you have only owners that are never going to leave...I don't think we have that.

"Just about everything is equal..."  Why wouldn't everything be equal?  (regarding owners and budgets)  I don't understand the reluctance to just make all owner ratings identical.  Sure, it's fun in our dynasties to have different personalities as owners.  In on-line OOTP, it's just annoying.

The only teams that want the game to decide their budgets are the one's with owners that will keep hammering their budget up.  I will be happy to agree to letting the game decide our budgets when all owner ratings are exactly the same and there is no salary cap.  Otherwise, it's just going to cause more problems.

Bum
there are only 2 ratings.  Patience and spending.  Patience only mattes if you can get fired/we we can't in this league.  Spending is equal because its for the financials.


_________________
Richard J. Rutkowski
North Shore Honu
2020-Present
.556(900-720)
2027 NABL Champs!
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Bumstead
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Join date : 2012-10-12
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Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Bumstead on October 30th 2014, 12:05 pm

Rich wrote:unless we get more voting on this we will let it ride.  Just about everything is equal now so the only thing we will change is owner spending when a new owner takes over.  We can open this up again if things get whacky in another 5-10 seasons....

I'm not talking about spending ratings.  All owner ratings should be the same.  There shouldn't be any variance.  There's really no point to it when you are competing in an on-line league, unless, of course, you have only owners that are never going to leave...I don't think we have that.

"Just about everything is equal..."  Why wouldn't everything be equal?  (regarding owners and budgets)  I don't understand the reluctance to just make all owner ratings identical.  Sure, it's fun in our dynasties to have different personalities as owners.  In on-line OOTP, it's just annoying.

The only teams that want the game to decide their budgets are the one's with owners that will keep hammering their budget up.  I will be happy to agree to letting the game decide our budgets when all owner ratings are exactly the same and there is no salary cap.  Otherwise, it's just going to cause more problems.

Bum
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Rich
Commish

Posts : 5625
Join date : 2012-10-12
Location : Long Island NY

Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Rich on October 29th 2014, 3:45 pm

unless we get more voting on this we will let it ride.  Just about everything is equal now so the only thing we will change is owner spending when a new owner takes over.  We can open this up again if things get whacky in another 5-10 seasons....


_________________
Richard J. Rutkowski
North Shore Honu
2020-Present
.556(900-720)
2027 NABL Champs!
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Rich
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Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Rich on October 29th 2014, 3:41 pm

Bumstead wrote:If you want to let the game decide the budgets and you want to maintain some level of fairness and not screw Tacoma again for years...I'm not bitter...You have to set the owner ratings the same.  This is a on-line league, there really is no reason for owner settings to not be the same for all teams.

As far as I am concerned, there is nothing to vote.  It's an incomplete poll.

Jeff
They are the same


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Richard J. Rutkowski
North Shore Honu
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.556(900-720)
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Bumstead
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Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Bumstead on October 29th 2014, 3:19 pm

If you want to let the game decide the budgets and you want to maintain some level of fairness and not screw Tacoma again for years...I'm not bitter...You have to set the owner ratings the same.  This is a on-line league, there really is no reason for owner settings to not be the same for all teams.

As far as I am concerned, there is nothing to vote.  It's an incomplete poll.

Jeff

Guest
Guest

Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Guest on October 20th 2014, 9:32 am

The pole has been up for 3 weeks and only 1/3 of the league has voted.. Bump, I suppose.
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Rich
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Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Rich on October 3rd 2014, 8:09 am

PelicansGM wrote:Owner decided budgets are typically a mixture of team/GM performance and owner tendencies. Because our owners now all have the same tendencies (they're all generous) the only part of the equation left is team/GM performance. With a generous owner, as long as you don't tank, your budget will never go down.
we also can't control Media Revenue.  The National is set to be the same and the avg is 30 mil but I'm not sure what the actual number is.  The local avg is set to 30 mil as well but not other setting.  So I'm guessing when these renew the game will give you a number higher or lower based on team performance.  Also inflation is a factor too.  I haven't tracked these but they seem to keep going up.


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Richard J. Rutkowski
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.556(900-720)
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Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Guest on October 1st 2014, 7:29 pm

I think we've evened out everything so we should just let the chips fall where they may. The only factors involved now should be manager decisions and to a lesser degree luck. If we keep throwing money around the player price problem will never get fixed. I think it has been proven that you don't need to spend right up to the cap to win so I would hope people finally figure out that spending 1/5 of your cap on one player is not exactly the best idea.
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Rich
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Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Rich on October 1st 2014, 10:00 am

PelicansGM wrote:Owner decided budgets are typically a mixture of team/GM performance and owner tendencies. Because our owners now all have the same tendencies (they're all generous) the only part of the equation left is team/GM performance. With a generous owner, as long as you don't tank, your budget will never go down.
If we want to make it more challenging we can lower market sizes and owner spending for the whole league.


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Richard J. Rutkowski
North Shore Honu
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.556(900-720)
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Rich
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Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Rich on October 1st 2014, 9:58 am

KMcBride wrote:I have a question.  Even though owner spending, market size and salary cap are all set equally across the board, I assume that if we let the game decide budgets going forward, there would still be differences.  Some teams would get a higher budget, and some teams a lower one.  

So, based on that assumption, here's my question:  How does the game decide?  If budget amounta and changes are based on game play and performance (i.e.:  a GM who has made FA signings that paid off will get more "trust" from their owner and thus more money in their budget) then I am all for letting the game decide budgets going forward.  If it's just arbitrary, then I don't see the point.
I'm not 100% sure and with new versions every year its hard to keep up with the changes.  I'm going to try to keep track of the changes each season.  No matter what at this time every year the owner budgets will come out and things will change.  Right now we are all on equal footing- so we can see how much things change each year.  I'm fine with them all being different but if budgets keep growing and player salary demands keep going up but our cap remains the same then then it may be an every ending battle to keep team stars. 

The unequal budgets where a result of different market sizes and owner spending with a little of team performance sprinkled in.  Now it is even so going forward alot of the game factors where taken out of the equation.  How the budgets are decided - I'm not sure if its purely numbers or not.  I'm fine with them being different if they stay in a range.  If a team makes bad moves and the budgets are slashed- I'm fine with that.  I'd like it to stay in a range 130-140 range.  So far I think the league been competitive.  We have seen different teams win and teams go up and down.  I want teams to be able to improve a team.  I've been in leagues where I had a low budget and a cheap owner.  I didn't have the money to get free agents or sign extensions - and the budget kept going down.  Basically I want you to be able to spend the full cap if your winning and have money.  If not you should be able to turn things around with some work and patience.  I want it to be challenging but I don't want teams to not ever be filled because they have a losing history and its impossible to repair.


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Richard J. Rutkowski
North Shore Honu
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.556(900-720)
2027 NABL Champs!
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Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by Guest on October 1st 2014, 8:57 am

Owner decided budgets are typically a mixture of team/GM performance and owner tendencies. Because our owners now all have the same tendencies (they're all generous) the only part of the equation left is team/GM performance. With a generous owner, as long as you don't tank, your budget will never go down.
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KMcBride
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Re: Owner Budget poll

Post by KMcBride on October 1st 2014, 7:32 am

I have a question.  Even though owner spending, market size and salary cap are all set equally across the board, I assume that if we let the game decide budgets going forward, there would still be differences.  Some teams would get a higher budget, and some teams a lower one.  

So, based on that assumption, here's my question:  How does the game decide?  If budget amounta and changes are based on game play and performance (i.e.:  a GM who has made FA signings that paid off will get more "trust" from their owner and thus more money in their budget) then I am all for letting the game decide budgets going forward.  If it's just arbitrary, then I don't see the point.
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Rich
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Owner Budget poll

Post by Rich on September 30th 2014, 9:24 pm

Now that all budgets, owner spending, and market size are equal - we need to come to a consensus to what to do going forward.  We are fighting the in game inflation so I'm not sure if we will be in the same situation in 4 or 5 seasons.  Plus when we upgrade to the next version - who knows what will be different and how it will effect these changes.  But we have 2 choices.  Let the game decide budgets and continue to manipulate them.  Feel free to comment or ask any questions.  This doesn't have to be resolved til the end of the season.


Last edited by Rich on November 2nd 2014, 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total


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